Please read this article by Ian Mc Whirter . Now is the time for clear thinking by the people of Scotland because if we remain in this unequal union, the UK , we will lose forever the chance to achieve our independence under the thumb of a right wing Tory government who consistently ignores the needs and wishes of the people of Scotland.
Now is not the time for the well trotted out nonsensical statement of ” I am not coming out of one Union just to be trapped in another one” mainly from left leaning people. The same people who (many of them) voted yes during the last referendum on the basis of Scotland remaining part of the EU.
It is your responsibility to research the benefits of the EU and realise just what you will be getting in to, with Brexit and having to form trading deals with countries like America. It is strange that many of the people who are against remaining in the EU are the very people who were against the introduction of TTIP. Well I have got news for you. If we form a trading agreement with America to replace some of the shortfall from the EU, then you will be getting shackled to TTIP and you will have to lump it.
This is not the time to indulge in fantasy’s you really need to seriously look at the EU benefits and stop talking nonsense about straight bananas, because if you don’t, you are in for a very severe shock .
Regardless of my reservations on how the SNP have failed to provide a road map to independence, and their single issue stance( the single market) I can foresee that they are going to realise that a referendum has to happen during 2018 regardless of whether the UK government make partial provision for access to the single market or not, so be prepaired to get back on the streets in campaign mode very shortly.
The yes Bus team is ready, and waiting to continue our journey.
9 thoughts on “Time to make up your mind”
Sorry Bob, but your foreword statement is categorically very wrong, please don’t make misleading statements & pass them off in a matter of fact manner ie ” ” I am not coming out of one Union just to be trapped in another one” mainly from left leaning people. The same people who (many of them) voted yes during the last referendum on the basis of Scotland remaining part of the EU.” EU officials made it categorically clear that Scotland would NOT remain in the EU & would infact have to re-apply as a NEW member state because in the eyes of the EU Scotland would be a new State & UK would be the successor state. I have posted that letter many times. So on that note Bob, many “Lefties” actually voted Yes on the assumption that we would be “Indepentent” ie Self Determination & free from BOTH Unions. But then we have already had this discussion more than once. There is only one definition of “Independence” what you should be saying instead is secession from the UK because it is an oxymoron. I voted Yes on the above proviso, not to be shackled to an EU which is riddled with corruption from the top down. Hope you had a good birthday mate, keep on keeping on.
Hi Eddie , hope you are well. I have to disagree. Firstly there was not a single EU official made any official statement to the effect that Scotland would not be able to continue as a member and the reason for that was quite simply, that although the Scottish Government had requested the UK government ( who were members ) to request a determination regarding Scotland’s position regarding continuing or otherwise in the EU ,they had refused . Now as the EU had not been officially asked for this information then they COULD NOT give an answer. There was also the very compelling case that the people of Scotland were already citizens of the EU and there was actually a rout by which a seamless transition could have been accommodated There was one or two private opinions BOTH WAYS offered but in no way could it be said that there was an official position from the EU on that question.
You will remember that one of the main planks of the campaign was Scotland within the EU and thus, one of the main basis’ of the campaign.
You could possibly be right in as much that some left leaning people ( and also some right leaning people ) may very well had the same opinion as you but I am speaking from actual solid case experience and therefore my statement was neither misleading or wrong. You will note my inclusion ( in brackets ) ( many of them ) which accounts for people like yourself who had a different interpretation of a possible outcome scenario. As for your definition of independence , even the UK government were forced to admit in their recent but rather belated white paper on Brexit ,that the UK had of course been sovereign throughout their membership of the EU.
Thanks for the Birthday wishes Eddie , yes it was good except for the age part:-)
Bob, the official in question gave a reply (unofficially) simply because the EU were “supposed” to be both impartial & neutral re: the referendum, people (SNP in the main) can’t have it both ways, they are currently citing the opinions of elected EU officials, the reply from the aforementioned official clearly set out the Lisbon Treaty legislation, which said Scotland would be out of the EU. No-one from the EU has disputed that info. Spain for certain would veto Scotland, there may yet be many more exit referenda in other member States. Scotland cannot be given any kind of special status or dispensation without rewriting sections of the Lisbon Treaty, that is simply not going to happen, an “Independence” referendum cannot have anything to do with EU membership because it’s a question that cannot be answered until AFTER independence, it cannot be a prerequisite Bob, or it will be defeat once again & maybe by an even larger margin if SNP are given full control of the question & criteria, the people need to wrest control away from the Politicians who have alternative agendas. Let’s see what happens re: UOGE & that will be a measure of how much they “really” act on behalf of the wishes of the people.
Bob, the official in question gave a reply (unofficially) simply because the EU were “supposed” to be both impartial & neutral re: the referendum, people (SNP in the main) can’t have it both ways, they are currently citing the opinions of elected EU officials to back up their own claims that Scotland would be welcomed in through some mysterious back door lol, it’s a load of hypothetical nonsense. The reply from the earlier aforementioned official clearly set out the Lisbon Treaty legislation, which said Scotland would be out of the EU. No-one from the EU has disputed that info using anything written within the LT, because such a clause doesn’t exist. Spain for certain would veto Scotland, there may yet be many more exit referenda in other member States. Scotland cannot be given any kind of special status or dispensation without rewriting sections of the Lisbon Treaty, that is simply not going to happen, an “Independence” referendum cannot have anything to do with EU membership because it’s a question that cannot be answered until AFTER independence, it cannot be a prerequisite Bob, or it will be defeat once again & maybe by an even larger margin if SNP are given full control of the question & criteria, the people need to wrest control away from the Politicians who have alternative agendas. Let’s see what happens re: UOGE & that will be a measure of how much they “really” act on behalf of the wishes of the people.
Eddie the only person who could be called “an official” who I am aware commented adversely was Barosa but only after he had left his post and was trying to curry favour with Cameron in order to get what he thought was going to be his next job.
I have to disagree that there was no rout open because there was and if my memory servers me well ( which would be unusual) it was contained in something like section 48 or 49 of the EU constitution.
Yes there has been more unofficial talks going on now but that is because the game has changed with the UK withdrawing from the EU.
As far as the wishes of the people go , well Eddie there was a 62% to 38% majority in favour of remaining in the EU and before you say that possibly many of those who voted to remain possibly are not in favour of independence , well it was made very clear that being forced out could very well result in an other referendum so therefore no one should have been under any illusions at to a possible outcome of a leave vote .
Bob the letter was in answer to a request from MSP Christina McKelvie to Viviane Reding (Vice President Of The EU Commission, Justice, Fundamental Rights & Citizenship) for clarification of Scotland’s EU status, upon exit from the UK the letter is freely available online & was released upon an FOI, here is a link to view McKelvie’s letter > http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/20140310_Convener_to_Vivianne_Reding_European_Commission.pdf And here is the reply letter mate > https://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf And here is a further reply a few weeks later, again from Viviane Reding > I hope this clarifies what I said in earlier comment Bob.
I replied to this Eddie but I do not know where it had gone so I will do it again. Christina Mc Kelvie asked two questions . Was it within the remit of a commissioner to adjudicate on a question of entry to the EU of a new country having been a part of a member country and the answer from Vivian Reding was no, and it was indeed the responsibility of the parliament to decide on this.
The second question , was there a mechanism for excluding people who were already citizens of the EU, from the EU, and she did not answer that question.
There was to be something like a year and a half between the referendum and the actual date for independence. Up to that point Scotland would still have been part of the EU but in a unique position of being on the way out from the UK. The reason for this delay was to facilitate this exact situation and there is absolutely no reason to believe that a year and a half was not long enough to cary out the necessary negotiations.
I have to admit though Eddie , I was not aware of this correspondence at the time of the campaign.
Yes it most certainly WAS within the remit of Rating in her capacity as Commissioner, to answer questions relating to membership, more so it was her duty to do so, she would have consulted fellow Commisioners as to the request from McKelvie. Not forgetting that Scotland were associated members of the EU via their member status within the UK, with sitting MEP’s at Brussels. If Reding had no remit then SNP would have been rather foolish to ask the question of her if it served no other solution than one of personal opinion Bob. It was a definitive answer sticking to the terms of membership and other legislated criteria of the Lisbon Treaty which is supposed to be watertight and governs the interpretation of EU law and it’s implementation. It may be a bitter pill to swallow for many hardened or newbie Nationalists, but those are the facts of the member voted legislation I’m afraid. EU laws are sacrosanct and supreme while you are a member of the EU and many are sacrosanct even once you leave. UK are now forced into having to adopt EU laws and some regs upon Brexit, which has been making the news in the past week.
Apologies for any typos Bob, using phone at present and should have switched off predictive text 😉